I wonder if more people wouldn't give (more) if they (we) weren't so greedy. I know that is stating the obvious, but here's the deal. We put ourselves into so much debt with credit cards, loans, etc. because we want stuff and we want it now. Then we can't give even if we wanted to because of all our debt. There's that whole thing about the debtor being slave to the lender. The lender has rights to our money (legally) because we wanted a big screen tv! Then, even if we are moved by the spirit to give, it is impossible because of our greed. Pathetic is a good word.

good post. good post. its funny how we feel like this money is ours...now that our income has gone up a little we knew right away that we needed to up our giving as well...but its funny that its still hard for a small part of me. i like money, the more the better. but when we are faithful, those are the times he blesses us even more... (yes, i know this is the stuff we learned in sunday school)

I wonder how many Christians don't give to the Church because they feel the money won't be spent correctly. If that's the case, is that really "giving" to the Church? Are you supposed to give to the Church, or give to God through the Church?

Hmm...

"Here's a gift because I'm such a great person. Now here's how you have to use it..."

Is it a "gift" at all if God told us to do it?

I've got a really dumb reason I don't tithe directly to the church (for right now): I was raised Catholic and went to church. My parents were very faithful and gave 10% of their gross income to the church every Sunday. Then the church decided they needed to expand - there were always people standing in the back at every mass. So they formed committies and boards of directors, interviewed and shopped contractors and blueprints, had a couple of sermons where we all needed to give more for the New Church, had fund raisers to get even more cash...then built a $8.7 Million dollar building that costed 18% more per year to heat and cool (due to the GIANT vaulted rood) and held about 230 people LESS than the old church with it's thread-bare carpet and scratched 70's vintage pews.

I have faith in the Lord, but I don't always have faith in his followers.

Now, this is NOT AT ALL what I think Renovatus is going to do with money that I give. And, if I am TRUELY GIVING it, I shouldn't care WHAT anyone does with it, right? I know that, but it doesn't stop me from being extremely gun-shy about giving. I want to be very clear on this: MY FEELINGS DO NOT RELATE TO ANY CHURCH EXCEPT THE CHURCH OF MY YOUTH!!! I LOVE Renovatus and love the work it does; I'm just a little scared and injured by my past.

sadly, we cant follow the serial numbers of the money we give(or can we?....moohahaha)...but i think thats what we do alot of times. it isnt our job to make sure the money is being used how we want, just that we are doing what He has asked of us...to give, not control.

Honestly we have (temporarily I hope) stopped giving to the church we attend, and instead split our giving between an aim student's support and needs that we see. And the reason we stopped is because the congregation keeps buying expensive electronic gadgets, the most recent of which was a flatscreen TV which hangs in the foyer and shows the service. Now I admit that this may be handy for, say, those who have to leave the auditorium with an unruly child, but it is still a huge expense that is only used for 4 hours MAX a week. (Plus, by my observation, most parents head straight to the bathroom with their unruly children.) We feel that God's command that we give everything to him also means we give him our eyes and ears to see needs that others have and meet them ourselves as he gives us the ability.

i believe this is the only place God says to "test" Him. At our church we ask people to pray and plan what they will give this year.

We also ask for a "faith pledge" which is where we "test" God.

Last year, I thought I had faith... So, I put down a big dollar amount... $1000.

Last year my testing God ended up with WAY more than my faith produced on paper.

(This is not bragging... This is God. Please do not misunderstand this.)

Because of this we were able to bless:

Renovatus
Uganda Missions
Klove Radio (this really is a ministry)
Two children homes in Russia
and more than 10% with our home church.

At the end of the year, I realized, I could not out give God. Everywhere I turned God was giving.

Now to ruffle things up...

I believe we need to give first to where we find our community... FIRST and then the above to other Great ministries... "TEST ME IN THIS" God says.

Do we stop giving to the Government becasue we don't like how they spend the money? If so we should move to another country that doesn't have the problems we have in the US. Canada? Mexico? Uganda?

We have folks who don't give to the church I work at because of me. They don't think we are "spending our money on right things."

They don't mind sitting in a building listening to the sermon and worship with LIGHTS, HEAT, SONG BOOKS, COMMUNION... They even like the pulpit minister and his lessons... all these things cost money. In the "big" picture... my salary is very small to the many other things needed to host a community.

Do we spend poorly in church? Sure we do. I'm a youth minister and have spent money on rubber balls... you know the kind for dodge ball.

GOOD THING THE CHURCH IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE MONEY IS SPENT WRONG.

first fruits, test me in this.

God is faithful even though his people are not.

I hope this can challenge people to TEST GOD. I hope people are ready for a response.

God is always giving to his people we just don't see it.

look for these things:
did you budget your phone bill or another bill and get a credit? $10? Thank you God.

have you ever received a money gift from a parent? Thank you God.

have you ever found money you didn't know you had? Thank you God.

any money you get that you didn't expect is an extra gift from God.

the money you have is already a special gift.

peace.

Ok I've got to comment now. This is too much good stuff. I love the honesty that everyone offered.
It's such an intriguing balance between giving freely and not worry about what happens later (The bible does say to give, but it doesn't say to track it) and then being wise with how you give.
Honestly? Honestly I think that most people give so little that there is really no room for worrying about where it goes.

I really do think that giving is the coolest thing. Like pretty much everyone who has commented said giving is a very open ended thing. I know people who give lots of money but whose time is their own and not gods (great irony really). I know people who dedicate much of their time in honor of Jesus but who choose not to trust him with their cash. It's a liberating thing to truly begin to trust God with your life in a holistic and complete sense. Granted it is a process, but in giving you can see God so obviously at work that it is a very rewarding process.

Jessica and I have the cool opportunity of never knowing how much we'll make from month to month. We created a budget based on what we believe we need to make (which is about 500 more than we actually do make). We give god ten percent of our desired amount. It really hurt at first (well, it still does some months) but God is truly faithful. And God also does not stop there. He doesn't want us to pick a number and then have the automatic withdraws done from our account month to month without our even thinking about it really. He truly does want everything. Our hearts, our cash, our time, etc. etc.
Chris, thanks for your honesty (we've already talked through email about this). I would challenge you Chris to find a way/place to give. I don't care if it's Renovatus (though I hope that one day it is), just give it to God in some way. I don't care the amount, you've got to start somewhere. Just start giving and then wait and see what God can do with it!

Sorry I rambled and it was so long.

Did you think of the "ten families can support a minister?" Because I think you stole that from me! That is exactly how I think churches should work. Planting one church after another. None of this building bigger buildings garbage! Go out and multiply!

Amen Jen, my sista friend! Amen! MEga churches really hit a nerve with me.

As far as giving goes, I must admit that I am stil very new to it. sure, I've been doing it for a few years... yeah, a few. I said a few.

I guess I am a bit lazy, because I know we should give, but then I think about how 10% is really NOT THAT MUCH considering how much God has given us. So then I think about how no matter what I give, it would never be enough. Then I say things like... well I work for the church and I spend more time up there than I get paid for... so I am giving my time. Or I will think about all of the supplies that I have bought and not turned in the reciept so I could get that cash back, and I excuse myself from feeling guilty because I "really do give more!"

But here's the thing. I know that that is STUPID! Just plain dumb! That there should be a level of commitment there, where I can 100% say that this money is for you God. You have blessed me and the least I can do is give this to you!

But I seriously have a problem. I don't know where to begin, and I never feel/know what is right or enough!

there's my open dumbness for the day.

See here's what I think about mega churches. I would hate to go to one. It's too big, it's too corporate america, it's too megachurchy. I went to a 2000 person church in Lubbock for a while and found ways to enjoy it and get involved. But in general I'd rather die than go to Nineveh...I mean a mega church.
But
I do think that they serve a great purpose. The resources at mega churches are greater than what we'd have if we had thirty 70 person church plants. They can better orginize and pull off big events, training things, etc. As a matter of fact I feel quite indebted to a few of the mega churches here in Vancouver for what they have done for us small church plants. Though I hate them, I do think that they serve a huge purpose.

KK, what you need to do is start viewing your tithe (or whatever ammount you and your hubbie choose) as an obligation (I know thats not a good word but it works) that even preceeds the money you give to the government. It's cool 'cause then your gross income becomes what you make after taxes and your tithe ammount. I think it's easier that way to build a habbit of giving to god a certain ammount. Then you have the freedom to give above and beyond out of your gross and extra income.
Anyway, again I appreciate everyones honesty. I think I'm goign to write a follow up post in another day or two.

I inveribly step into these conversations too late! This is one that I wish I would have read within ten minutes of Rybee's post! These are all amazing othervations, my friends, but I now have a challenge to put out to THIS particular Blogmunity (those actually make comments, and those who remain avid, yet silent readers)

My Challenge is simple: "Put your money where your mouth is." What I mean is, this remains just so much talk, and perhaps it is time we do something; take action. Ryan is going to be Renovatus' next (first) daughter-church planter and soon this baby church will begin collecting donations for the next baby. The reality is, Ryan Woods is presently a full-time minister ... that has to work part-time hours at Outback to pay the bills. I believe God is raising him up for this ministry and it's time for us to tell God of our willingness to partner with Him to free up more of Ryan's time ... with money. So we're in. Ryan & Jessica, we're in for $100 a month. Who's with me ... and for how much?

were in for $150 a month.

Yikes! That sure shut down the conversation!

'Sorry!