i honestly hate it when you say mutual masturbation and I think you know it. I think we've had this conversation and it went like this:

Ri: Do you think I can say mutual masturbation at church?

r1: I don't think you can say it anywhere Ryan and if you say it again I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to eat your wife's wonderful gluten free chocolate chip cookies and blame it all on you.

Ri: do it. I dare you.



and that is why Jess and I aren't friends anymore. all because Ryan says Mutual Masturbation. And because I have said it more times in this comment than he did in his post.

ps: is this because I gave my word to stop at third????

p.s.
I'm sure your father is proud of this post....


remember the Ebay Dog Pucker? I'm totally posting that story at some point tomorrow.

me and baby jesus are crying together right now, after reading this sick post. ryan, you know people like the sherks read this blog and they will never speak to you again...thanks for losing our truest friends. thanks alot.

Oh yeah. The dad is real proud. 'Can't wait until the mother catches up on the events of our blogosphere.

but Tara!!!!! Do you remember the ebay dog pucker... cause it's a good story! REMEMBER!

i remeber the ebay dog pucker....that was funny..maybe i will blog about it before you do...but i guess thats not possible since you (arwen) post 6 times a day and i post 6 times a year.

Ok here's the thing. I know I look bad saying things like mutual masterbation and such. But what you all are not knowing is that when I lived in Lubbock and worked with a youth group there (one of the largest in Lubbock) the youth minister actually taught a sex ed class where he spoke about mutual masterbation, heavy petting, etc. It was terrible. It was funny. It was awesome.

I will always remember the embarrisment of watching a James Dobson (hero of the evangelical empire) video where he described the stages of physical intimacy in detail, clinically, but way too specifically. I doubt I would have felt such keen embarrisment if it was not shown in class, and had I not been required to write the stages, which roughly corrrespond to the bases, in my school notes.

Ryan Woods! I'd like to think I'm not that prudish anymore, but seriously that's the kind of thing you don't post on your blog. We can still be friends but just a little...

This is tough... I really try not to react to much of what you say here.

I'm thankful my daughter Hannah is grounded from the computer and blogging.

I'm going to have to add this site to my kids filter as MA only.

I know you say, "don't care what people think..." I don't believe you... Never have, never will.

We can be friends if only via blogland... But it is getting harder and harder to come back here.

I guess I'm too old to understand. Perhaps, soon, I will be done away with so the world can move on without youth pastors like me.

Good luck with you ministry... Ambassador.

people are prude.

here i was wondering "does ryan mean 'ryan is playing with his own parts and jessica is playing with her own parts but they are together while they do it?' or does ryan mean 'ryan is playing with jessica's parts and jessica is playing with ryan's parts, but ryan is not putting his doodle in jessica's vajayjay.'"

but i don't suppose i can ask for that clarification because people will nickname me uncle pervie or something.

but either way, i think that's third base.

I will answer the question posed after number 7. Yes, that is weird.

And I always thought that sex before marriage was mutual masturbation. To me, without the marriage commitment, you are just gettin' off--not becoming one flesh.

amen, jason... amen

I would just like to say, thank God Almighty in heaven I wasn't snacking when I read this blog.Ryan, I believe I've said this in the past, I understood what you were trying to say perfectly, but you still got some explaining to do bucko.

this just came to me while I was trying to get my hair to fauxhawk right, so it may be scattered, so stick with me.

This here post of Ryan's is just the mix of serious and funny that he is famous for.
The real question here is not "is it ok to blog about stuff like this" but what really is ok? Where is the line drawn? Is it ok to frech it out with your boyfriend if you're not married? Is M.M.(I will NOT say it again) considered sex? Do you know that the girl who got raped by the Duke guys didn't actually get raped because they didn't use their peni? Well, that's what the state says. It's a question of definiton, I think. If you consider sex anything that could lead to intercourse, then maybe the line should be drawn at hand holding. But if sex is only intercourse, then everything else is ok.
So I think what needs to be done here is have an honest conversation about sex. We are all adults and some of us have children who will someday ask these questions.

And I've seen the pictures of Jones in the belt. He'll need a talking to pretty soon.....

My Friend Scott told me something about overt displays of affection and their relation to sex: if you're looking for some kind of line physically, you've probably already crossed it mentally, so what's the point?

I am just not willing to comment on this one. If you really wanted the "bases" question answered I would have omitted some of the more discrptive suggestions. I am entertained by how many comments you've recieved, though!

arwen -

1) ha ha ha ha ha... i have also wondered "should we be talking about this?" when in the blogosphere. i even considered (briefly) not commenting in such a vulgar manner, but it came down to - i'd have said it if we were all sitting around a table somewhere, so i'll say it here.

2) as far as "how far is to far?" and "when has sex occured?" are concerned, my opinion on this has changed GREATLY as i have matured in my sexual relationship with the mister. i will encourage my kids to share their first kiss with their spouses at the altar. i never thought i'd feel that way, until i was lucky enough to watch an adult friend of mine conduct her relationship that way, and seen the blessings she is receiving as a result.

the mister and i don't "make-out" without "doing it." it just always (of course there are few exceptions) leads to the full meal deal. if not at the exact moment, later in the day, or whatever. and the FEW times that it doesn't? you better believe we are both thinking about it.

i don't think we should put other people through that. "i so totally want to do it with this girl, i just had my tongue in her mouth, i wonder how other parts of me would feel in other warm places..." it's just not nice. that should be reserved for the safety and commitment of marriage.

i've come to believe that all sexual contact above and beyond hand holding, and some hugging is too far without marriage. it's foreplay, period. i wouldn't engage in foreplay with jason, or ryan, or kevin, or john... they are not married to me.

just my humble opinion.

that being said? me and the mister are totally gonna do it tonight. it's gonna be awesome. and god will be watching. and? if i pray about it first? and ask god to make sure it's good for me? and ask him to make sure my body responds to my husband? he totally will answer that prayer. cause god is soooo cool. and he made MY body to have a (excuse me) clitoris. that is ONLY used for sexual pleasure, unlike the penis/testicles which are used for urniating and making babies, and sexual pleasure. that is one awesome god. sex is meant to be good for women. hoooooray!

I debate this hypothesis of the clitoris being only for pleasure. While this is not what the post is about, I have to say it because it may never come up again.

I prefer to belive that it has a reproductive, though not direct purpose. While the clitoris is meant to cause orgasm, the orgasm greatly aids in the likelihood of conception. So, I think that there is more than just a purely pleasurable purpose behind that little guy.

I watch too much Discovery and TLC...
That is all I have.

Nope. It's not.
I agree with the 4play thing... I tried to think of a situation where it wouldn't be, and I can't think of one. But perhaps Rambo and I should continue this discussion elsewhere....

Way to be Scandalous, Ry...

wow, when I left for work the other day there were like seven comments. Apperently sex is a hot topic (for many reasons). I respect what most of you have said and enjoy talking about most anything. I always consider myself to be a pretty open book, for better or worse.
Dearest Sarah, if it took me blogging about sex to get you to finally comment, I think it was worth it.
Jason, I always love what you have to say. Seriously, your comments are always very refreshing to me. I wasn't intending on begining a discussion on values and morality and such. It actually all started when I was joking around with my wife. BUt in the end this has been very beneficial. I'm so glad that I'm married. I'm so glad that I've got a while before I've got to threaten my son to treat ladies right.
I'm not sure what I'm talking about, but having sex with your wife (or husband) rocks. And in all honesty, little else makes me as sad as thinking about those people who search for love through sex from many different partners. It makes me sad and hurt on their behalf. Thank you all for your comments.

feet, huh? interesting.... i'll never look at you the same..... ever.

ever.

It makes me a little uncomfortable that Arwen calls her clitoris a little guy.

It makes me uncomfortable when Jason talks about Arwens little guy.

that was a little awkward....

haha ryan, you got in trouble from jonathan! you changed this blogmunity from pg to R.
i wish i ws ball-sy enough to blog about something crazy, just so that sarah will comment. i love sarah...

Oh, hubby.... (but not my hubby...) that is totally fine as long as you don't touch her and she doesn't touch you.

Tara.... you do remember when you woke up and Sarah was just a dream... right? cause you may want to use that Dellsurance to seek a helping hand. You know... just to talk.
and please, let that helping hand be me. cause i like money. even dellsurance money.
godspeed and goodnight (or good morning, really... i've offically been up for 43 hours minus 4 hours of sleep. merry christmas, everyone. awesome.

'member back in the garden? god didn't tell them they were naked. our delusions about nudity are our own. however, we shouldn't cause our brothers to stumble... so if your girlfriend is naked and you lust after her... naughty naughty.

this conversation is so fun!

p.s. i know it wasn't your intent... but thanks for unwittingly opening some importand dialogue about sex, ryan. "christians," in general, are too prude to openly discuss it. it's a real shame.

Steve, don't get naked with a woman...unless your both married...to each other. Seriously, I think the whole base system doesn't work very well when dealing with a healthy Christian paradigm (though very often I think we deal more from a severely unhealthy christian paradigm of drawing lines, of deciding which things are right and wrong, of creating boundaries and systems rather than relationship and emotional health).
A better thing Steve would be to find a girl who loves God as much or more than you do, who desires for your relationship to be Christ centered and holy...and then, when your faced with the situation where your trying to draw lines and say "hey, this isn't technically sex so it's ok" you can try to remind your penis that even for him relationship with God comes first and the spiritual health of your relationship with your woman comes next.
Did any of that make sense? All I know is that I'm pretty sure that no matter how holy you are and how good the relationship is you're going to make that justification, "this isn't really sex is it?". I say just avoid lines and stick with circles (does that mean anything if you take it metaphorically or something? I thought it sounded cool...but it doesn't really mean anything I don't think)

Any man who who says he can lay beside a naked woman and NOT be thinking about sex is either a liar or simply died when she crawled in. And any woman who thinks that guy is NOT going wild sexual thoughts all night long ... well ... she just doesn't understand how INCREDIBLY different men & women are wired!

hmmm...I wonder if Gandhi committed adultery in his heart?...I wonder...

Not if he was hungry enough to only think about food.